From: Nathaniel Kossack
Date: 02 Feb 2002
Time: 07:53:31 -0500
I've noticed your spot on UND Aerospace on your website http://www.und-fraud.com . As a UND Aerospace student and a pilot I can't refute that UND has had its share of aircraft incidents. Although you list 63 aircraft incidents/accidents (which by the way are not categorized into fatal/non-fatal, which would can be misleading if the assumption that all these accidents were fatal is allowed to be portrayed) i cannot find that number of mishaps in my own search of the NTSB accident synopsis database at http://www.ntsb.gov . As you may or may not know, Embry-riddle,. UND's main competitor suffers at least one FATAL accident per year. UND has suffered only one in the past two years as a result of a suicide in Rapid City, SD. This accident was caused by a distraught student who's aviation career was ruined due to two DUI convictions. This sort of accident is beyond UND's control due to the pilot's responsibility to report these incidents, which he DID NOT. UND SOF officers are not mind readers and can't predict such a tragic event. I've visited most of UND's competition, including Western Michigan University, Embry-Riddle (absolute circus), Ohio State, Kent State, and Purdue. Each school had its advantages and disadvantages but UND stood on top because of its reasonable cost, TOP NOTCH facilities, new aircraft, and rigorous curriculum. You call UND a pilot mill. Its really not as most of the students that actually enter as declared aviation majors never make it though the program due to its highly challenging nature. UND's use of a modified and much harder Part 141 curriculum (see 14 CFR 141 to see what a 141 school is) generates pilots that are highly professional and prized in the industry.
North Dakota's weather is also an excellent place to learn real world flying (i.e IFR). With most days being under VFR minimums come late fall and winter, instrument skills become critical and consequently very sharp. Compared with an Embry-riddle graduate, a UND grad will most likely have 10X more actual instrument time in their logbook, making them an exponentially better pilot in comparison.
I understand you utterly hate UND and wish to see it go down in flames. But UND is truly a diamond in the ruff, being the most inexpensive school with the best aviation facilities in the world. I hope that you can see UND Aerospace in a better view.
Thank you for your time.
REPLY FROM AN EDITOR
From: Vivian Nelson (Web Master)
Date: 02 Feb 2002
Time: 07:58:06 -0500
Thank you for writing. Actually, none of us want to see UND "go down in flames", we want UND to follow their published regulations and correct their screw-ups so we can get on with our lives. That's not too much to ask, is it? Because UND is still procrastinating and has yet to settle our cases, we thought we should forewarn people planning to do business with UND, so they don't wind up victimized by UND incompetence too.
Our site lists UND's 69 aircraft incidents/accidents by date. Check these events out on the FAA's web site at http://nasdac.faa.gov/asp/fw_fids.asp Click on Cross System Search Click "GO" then Type in "University of North Dakota" The site should return a total of 71 mishaps. If you have questions or problems, don't hesitate to ask.
As an ATP and check airman, in Florida, Riddle's accident rate doesn't surprise me, but I can honestly tell you UND should have been aware of Robert Thomson's mental state, especially since he was a UND flight instructor. UND should have emphasized alternatives to an airline career considering his previous history. On a personal note, I began flying jets because one of our firm's pilots had problems with alcohol.
Yes, those of us working in aviation label UND a "pilot mill". Yes, you do get a lot of IFR time, which is important, but you lack quality experience in other areas. For instance: How proficient are UND pilots on grass strips, dirt strips, skis and floats? How about cross country experience - how many times have you flown over 500 miles from Grand Forks, how many large airports have you flown into, and how much International experience or aerobatic experience do you have? How about mountain flying? What about types of equipment flown?
Not everyone will fly with the airlines. It also must be noted that airlines want well rounded pilots. The money your spending at UND would go along way to making you a well rounded pilot with a diverse training background, in other words a highly employable pilot.
What is academic your study area? Aviation? What if you lose your medical or do not get on with the airlines. How employable are you with that degree?
A short time ago I was helping a friend find his first aviation job. We telephoned an FBO in Rapid City. Their chief pilot told us immediately, if he was a UND graduate to "forget it" because he needed a pilot who know something about flying. Having been a chief pilot, I understood his point. I've hired pilots, and worked with a few UND graduates on both the corporate pilot level and CE-500 (Citation) system instructor level and I must say UND pilots leave a lot to be desired.
Vivian Nelson ATP SMEL, CE500, Comm ASES, CFII, MEI, BGI
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